196: Are You Having The Same Argument Over and Over? Here's How to Stop with Beaonca Ward

Are you having the same argument with your partner, over and over?

This week I chat with Beaonca Ward, a certified relationship coach and marriage and family therapy expert (or MFT) who spends her days in the thick of it with couples who are wedding planning. 

You are going to learn what a generational pattern is, and why it has this sneaky habit of showing up the second you start planning a wedding. 

Beaonca walks us through a real example of how something as simple as being close or distant from your family can change how much pressure you put on your partner, often without either of you even realising where it’s coming from.

She also breaks down what healthy communication looks like in that first year of marriage, including the exact words to use when you need a break from a hard conversation without your partner feeling shut out.

Plus Beaonca shares a statistic about how many arguments married couples have that can never actually be resolved. It’s eye watering and sounds a bit rough at first, but once you understand the way forward, I promise you it is one of the most freeing things you can learn about communication with your partner. 

RESOURCES

Beaonca Ward on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therealbeaonca/

Quiz: What Is Your Marriage Communication Style? https://www.beaoncaward.com/quiz

Send Unbridely a 90-second audio message on Speakpipe: https://www.speakpipe.com/unbridelypodcast

*The Unbridely Podcast is sponsored by its listeners. When you purchase products or services through links on our website or via the podcast, we may earn an affiliate commission.*

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Unbridely acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we record this podcast on, the Kaurna People. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Have you noticed how you keep having the same argument with your partner over and over? And how you think you've got it sorted with a solution you can both live with. And then you're doing it again six weeks later. Today I'm sitting down with Bianca Ward, a certified relationship coach and marriage and family therapy expert or MFT who spends her days in the thick of it with couples who are wedding planning. Apparently, it's a very common time for these tense kind of discussions to come up. And I have to say, talking to her feels a lot less like a lecture and more like chatting with your smartest, most switched-on friend. She has this warm, sunny way of breaking down the big heavy stuff that could otherwise feel a bit, you know, doom and gloom. And somehow she makes it feel light and even funny at times. You're gonna learn what a generational pattern is and why it has this sneaky habit of showing up the second you start wedding planning rather than at any other point beforehand in your relationship. Bianca walks us through a real example of how something as simple as being close or distant from your family can change how much pressure you put on your partner, often without either of you even realizing where it's coming from. She also breaks down what healthy communication looks like in that first year of marriage, including the exact words to use when you need a break from a hard conversation without your partner feeling shut out. Plus, Bianca shares a statistic about how many arguments married couples have that can never actually be resolved. It's eye-watering and it sounds pretty rough at first. But once you understand the way forward, I promise you it's one of the most freeing things you can learn about communication with your partner. And to be honest, I was relieved myself after 12 years of marriage to learn about it. Let's get stuck into it. Unbridly is a community of pro-wedding vendors who believe in freedom and integrity in weddings, giving you options, solutions, tips and tricks. To create the experience and memories that you and your fiance really want and deserve. Because we believe that weddings are a team sport with how-to's, stories and interviews with recently married couples. We find out what went right and what they've changed if they could go back and do it all over again. I'm Camille and welcome to the Unbridly Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Hi, Bianca. So lovely to meet you. Hi, thank you so much for having me. It's so nice to meet you as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

It's really lovely to um see your face. We'll have to share a bit on Instagram. So I know a little bit about you, but my listener doesn't. Could you explain who you are, where you are, what you do?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yes, of course. So I'm Bianca. I work as a certified relationship coach. I'm also currently working towards my master's degree. I only have two months left. So for the last few years, I've also been providing couples and family therapy as well. So this really is my jam. This is my thing that I do. I especially love helping the couples that I work with overcome generational patterns that they recognize are unhealthy and no longer serve them in their current relationships. I'm also currently located in the US right now, and specifically I live in PA.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yay. That's that's Pennsylvania, right? Okay, great. I'm not quite up with my states, but okay, nice nice. So you're on the East. Yes, East Coast. Beautiful. I know from talking with so many couples that, you know, in weddings, and usually we're talking about weddings, that it's not ever the logistical planning of a wedding that's the problem. It's the relationships, it's all the stuff that's attached to it. And this is what you work with day in, day out.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

So, first of all, like let's go right back to basics. So you're saying generational issues. Yeah. Explain what they are. Like, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

So generational patterns are considered to be any beliefs or behaviors that are recurring that have been passed down through generations of our family of origin, right? So typically things that can still currently affect our relationships in the present moment. Um, but they're typically things that we picked up usually early in childhood. So generational patterns can be healthy or they can be unhealthy.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah. And the problem comes when they're unhealthy, but they're unconscious as well, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yes, many of them are definitely unconscious. I will say though, like in the work that I've been doing lately with couples, so a lot of the couples that I'm specifically working with are like in that couple month period right before they get married. So it's kind of where things are, you know, they're kind of still technically supposed to be in that like honeymoon period. But I often see that like that's not what's happening. There's so much anxiety there. And I think with anticipating a major transition like marriage, there tends to be things that come up, like those generational patterns tend to be kind of like very salient for us when they come out in the moment, right? Lots of anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

They bubble to the surface, don't you? In that wedding planning, they really come out.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Oh, yeah. Things that you typically would not think about. You know, I see this a lot with couples. Sometimes they're starting to have conversations that they haven't had previously, right? Now that they're starting to plan a wedding. And I think that really is such an important time to see a therapist or to see a coach because you're really having this opportunity to get to know your partner on a deeper level that you may not have had the opportunity to previously.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah. So can you give us some examples of I mean like a healthy generational unhealthy one?

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Okay, sure. So when I think of healthy ones, let's start there because that's a little bit little bit easier. Healthy ones would be like, as you're planning a wedding, one of the most common I see is when couples are saying, like, I want to be able to talk about what my values and my beliefs are. That sounds very simple, but you would be surprised how many people don't actually talk about that together until they see a therapist or marital coaching. Anytime that you're having conversations with someone and you start to feel more calm, you feel relaxed, I always remind my clients that's usually your guiding point to recognize if a pattern is healthy or unhealthy. Think about how you're feeling internally when you're having those conversations with another person. You'll know if it's unhealthy or healthy based on how you're feeling. If you feel the conversation brings up a lot of anxiety, you feel like your heart rate is beating really fast when you're having certain conversations. That could be an indication that this might not be necessarily a healthy pattern. So, like you might need to do some investigating there.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

It's amazing when I hear that couples are not talking about their values and their beliefs before they go and get engaged. I'm like, what are you doing? It really freaks me out. But it's better to have this conversation, you know, before, right? Before you get married, I guess. You know, and that's why they're coming to you at you know, a few months out, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, absolutely. And I also want to say, too, a lot of these things sound so simple, but like in practice they're not, right? So sometimes with the couples that I see, they'll be like, Well, when I met this person and we first started dating, I told them what I was looking for out of a marriage, right? I told them my long-term goal. You know, I had all these boxes that I needed to be checked. They met all this criteria. So for them, it feels like they talked about all their values, right? But it's not until you have the opportunity to actually start wedding planning where, you know, there are these other factors you didn't have to deal with previously, like dealing with like in-laws. There might be certain things that come up during the wedding planning process that just wasn't there previously because it's such a big deal. You're literally merging two different families together. So certain issues didn't really have the opportunity to come up.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Is it frequently money, kids, religion? Are these the topics that you're seeing come up most frequently?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Absolutely. But the biggest is family. That is the biggest one. And you'd be surprised, like, even more than parenting, like with like the current couple, I typically see it as like here are the things that my partner is doing that trigger me and make me uncomfortable. And I don't necessarily understand why it's making me uncomfortable, but I know that I don't like it. And therefore, that's making me question like, are we in the right direction? Like, do we maybe need some support here? Most of my case, Lotus Phil, was people who are really having that like engagement anxiety, right? Not necessarily anxiety disorders, but just having anxiety during the wedding planning process because they're having to reflect on things that their partner is doing that triggers them based on things that they've witnessed in their childhood or things that they didn't have in their childhood that they want to have now.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Right. Can you like give us a specific example of something like that, Ionka? I mean Yeah, you know, obviously we're not gonna name names and it's just you know, this is just all theoretical. Yeah. For my listener, they're sitting there and they're going, yes, yes. Tell me what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yes. So a big one that I see with my couple specifically are cutoffs. So cutoffs can be emotional or they could be physical. So, like, try not to get too specific but clear enough, right? Think of someone who maybe had some like negative experiences in their childhood with their parents. So they kind of create a lot of distance from them in adulthood, right? Think of someone who it could be as drastic as I don't talk to my family at all, right? Because I think they're toxic and unhealthy, or it could be more subtle, right? Where maybe I just don't show up to family events because I'm like, I can't deal with my family. They trigger me too much, they make me feel anxious, like, right? I hear this a lot with my couples. They spend time with their family and they feel like they're literally a child all over again.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Those would be, those would be really good examples of some of those unhealthy patterns. So I will say, and not everyone agrees with this, but generally in the field, unless there was something very severe, like abuse, different things like that that are incredibly detrimental to you and your mental health, typically what we see, whether we agree that cutoffs are good or bad, right? Like I don't have a strict view on whether it's positive or negative. But regardless, right, if you're having this significant amount of distance from your family of origin, typically your expectations and needs from your partner are going to be greater than someone who is having those expectations and needs met by family, even if they have a very difficult family to deal with. So wait, wait.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

So in this example, uh-huh, you've got a couple, and one of them has cut off their family, and the other is going, I don't know if that's a great thing, and I feel uncomfortable and put under pressure, and that my future husband, wife, spouse is perhaps needing too much from me because they have no other support from their family.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Exactly. And often what I see is the other person isn't able to verbalize that that is where the pressure is coming from, right? Like most people, they feel the pressure, but they're not actually thinking to themselves, oh, it's because this person doesn't have like the support from their family. They're just thinking, oh, maybe I'm with a really needy person, or like maybe my partner just like has too high expectations for me that I don't feel like I can need. Why is that? Right. That's usually how the conversations start.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

So I mean, you would think, I mean, I would assume that it's the person who cut off their family, they're the ones with the issues that they need to talk through and work through. But it's equal, if not more, on the fiance.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Yes, absolutely it is, right? Because the one person that kind of like cut the family off has these really high expectations for their fiance, right? But also the other person, this is typically gives way to the fact that like communications are an issue as well. If you're not able to reflect on that and identify that, that's also a problem. Thinking about these things. So a big part of my job. So I specifically study marriage and family therapy, which is different than other forms of therapy, at least in the US. We also had like licensed professional counselors, we have like psychologists, psychiatrists, everything like that, social workers as well, all of whom can become licensed and provide therapy. But what is specific to MFTs is we specifically look at cycles of interaction between couples and families and how that influences your mental health and your current relationships. And that's really important, that distinction that I'm telling you here, and the importance of that is we do not view behaviors in isolation, right? So we don't accept the idea that like one person is the problem in a relationship. We're always looking at if this one person does something that's unhealthy, how is the other person responding that is contributing to this negative cycle that they found themselves in?

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yeah, which makes sense because, well, in every relationship I've had, whether it's with my parents or with a partner, it's a two-way street. It goes, you sort of your energy bounces off each other and your expectations bounce off each other, and you can absolutely find yourself in this continual loop and you're having the same conversations over and over again, but not getting out of that loop and resolving anything. I know exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Absolutely, and that's why sometimes it takes someone like an MFT to step in and actually tell you like if you're having the same conversations, the same arguments over and over again, you're probably dealing with a perpetual problem, meaning that like not all of your arguments can actually be resolved. That's a really people have a really hard time swallowing that pill. And I get it, right? I don't really have heard anyone say that. Well, here's the thing, right? I can present you with a wealth of research on this that speaks to the fact that nearly 70% of arguments that married couples have are things that cannot be resolved because they boil down to differences in values, differences in personality, right? Sure, we can change behaviors all day, day in and day out in therapy and coaching, but we can't necessarily change someone's personality that's already there. So now the issue is maybe it's not so that I've chosen the wrong partner, and that's why we're stuck having the same arguments over and over again. Maybe it's just the fact that I need to get to know my partner better to understand underneath this problem what is the value that they're connecting with underneath the meaning of this conversation and using that as an opportunity to better understand your partner to have constructive conversations. So that can be really difficult for people to sometimes sit with that, right? Because they're like, you mean to tell me there's no answer to this? Like, no.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

We spent a lot of time, a lot of money sitting here talking about this, and there's no answer. Yes, wow, because it blew down. Yeah, there's beneath that conversation or that reason. And if there could be an understanding about the reasons, then you're on the step to sort of maybe not being able to resolve it, but at least being able to understand it.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Absolutely, and that is the key, right? That's how I know up front from like the first couple sessions, which of my couples are still gonna be together and who's not, like, really, because it is so difficult for people to understand the fact that like you're not gonna agree on everything, and that is okay. It doesn't mean you're with the wrong person, but I feel like being able to actually plan a wedding gives you these opportunities to be able to have these conversations about like what meaning is this person making about like money and how I'm trying to have like certain things in this wedding that maybe we didn't get to talk about previously. And that's okay too, right? It doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong, but it's important for my couples to know how to do that very early on, especially because you're gonna have to have these conversations for the rest of your life. You don't need to be arguing about the same things for the next 20 years. But if you're not able to approach conversations with an open mind and curiosity with your partner about why is this so important to them, you're not gonna be able to have constructive conversations long term. And that is ultimately what destroys relationships.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

That's huge, Bianca. Just blow my little mind to them. Okay. So when couples come to you and they might recognize already, or maybe they don't, like you're gonna let them know. They're in a generational loop there. They've got things going on that's just constantly driving arguments and disagreements and things like that. When couples recognize that's actually from how they were raised, you know, where do you start there? How do you get them to understand that they're the product of their history? I mean, what are the what are they doing?

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, you can erase your history. I always like to let clients know as well, too. Sometimes there's so many emotions that they feel about their family of origin and like their background and all their history that they feel like they come from like a failed family. I always like to start there with them, right? Like, do you feel if you came from one of these failed families?

SPEAKER_02 19:10

And if so, most of my couples would be going, yes, yes, because do you know what? When I'm a celebrant, it's often one of the first things my couples say to me, Camille, we just want to say in advance, we're really sorry for our families. Yeah. They want to warn me.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yeah. I get that a lot too in therapy. They're like, Yeah, they're like, listen, I've had people literally say this to me. I'm a very damaged person, right? So, like, I'm gonna need a lot of help and support here. Or they'll be like, oh, you know, you better be ready for what I'm gonna talk about in these sessions because there's a lot to unpack there with my family. And I'm like, we all have a lot to unpack with our families, right? Yeah, some families, you know, have certain unhealthy behaviors that are more common that maybe is easier for you to recognize as unhealthy, but like all of us have certain things that we're like, you know what? Maybe that wasn't too good. Maybe I don't want to do that with my own kids, or maybe I don't want to communicate that way with my partner because I I don't like the way that my parents did that.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

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SPEAKER_00 21:56

I personally, this is just my own. Approach. Not everyone likes to do this, but this is something that I found specifically helps the couples that tend to be drawn to me, looking at the extremes in their family, looking at the extremes in their current relationship. And what I mean by that is like when we are dealing with our original families of origin, there are typically things that we recognize that they already do are unhealthy that we don't want to continue doing in the current moment. And then I have a conversation with them about like, what is the opposite of those behaviors that you're wanting to embody? And then once they tell me, I let them know okay, great, but the opposite of an extreme is still another extreme, right? So now we need to figure out what's the middle ground between those two things.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah, where's where's the healthy middle? I think what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

I can give you an example. There's so many of them. So for example, this is one I see all the time. I'll see where one person and the couple they tend to like overfunction in the relationship, right? Like the person that likes to plan all the dates in the context of this, like they're the one that's mainly hands-on planning the wedding. There's usually one that's planning a little bit more than the other.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Not always, but typically 9.9% of the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

They're kind of like hands-on with like, we need to have this here. This is what I think we should do here. Like, what's your input? What do you think? Typically, that tends to be too anxiety-ridden for the other person. And so they tend to kind of distance themselves a little bit. So for the person planning, it feels like a sort of rejection, right? That's a lot of what I see coming up with my couples. I also see a lot of my couples come from backgrounds as well, too, where maybe there's let's say they have two parents in a household, but parents don't function very well together, very toxic. Maybe they have one parent that is like, well, we argue this needs to be solved right then and now. We need to have this conversation resolve it so that this does not fester and become a problem long term. And the other person is like, no, I like need a break to chill out. I don't want to talk about this anymore. So they completely shut down. That's a very frequent one that I happen to see with couples. Sometimes that can look a little bit more subtle in the way that they go about it, but it's just really, really common, especially when planning a wedding, because often that teaches us that like we either have not learned the tools to have conversations that make us feel uncomfortable and anxious. So your dominant thing that you go to is either, oh, we need to resolve this right now, which is gonna make the other person feel like they need to shut down, right? Because it's too much energy for them. But also the other person, it lets you know that they also don't have enough tools to help them to regulate their emotions to be able to be present and have a conversation, also.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

You can see how everything is just yeah, perpetual, you say. Like it just it keeps going around and around. But you know, there's also that understanding that let's say you know, our type A person who's you know grabbed the horse by the reins and is doing all the wedding planning and everything, maybe they've got an inbuilt need to do that because maybe needs weren't fulfilled when they were a child that they felt like that was the only way to get things done in their family. Um, and yet the person who's avoiding is also you know just reflecting what's happened in their childhood, and it was easier and it was safer, and they never saw anyone with the kids to be able to communicate and you know really discuss thoughts and feelings and stuff, and so shutting down is the only way they know, and they just keep acting this out forever, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yes, absolutely. I totally get what you mean, and I see that all the time, and that's why I have to tell them because typically when they come in, whatever dominant way they're communicating, they view as the right way to do it. So, like the person that's like we need to resolve this now is like, if we don't resolve this, this is gonna be a problem long term, right? That's pretty logical to think that way, but it doesn't mean that it's objectively correct for that particular relationship. The same way other person's like, well, I feel like if we talk about it and it already started negative, then the conversation's gonna end negative. So this isn't a productive conversation, and I also don't want to say anything that could be hurtful to you or say anything that could be misunderstood, right? Because I feel dysregulated right now. And I have to also tell them, right, that's very logical, makes a lot of sense. And also, we also have to challenge ourselves in certain moments to have conversations because that can also be felt as a sort of rejection for the other person. Because over time, if we keep doing that, then that's also letting them know that like I'm not gonna be here or present when things are bothering me.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

So, okay, in this specific example, because it's strange, Bianca, that you should say that both partners think they're always right, because I am always right. So I can really like to validate what is the middle ground for like one desperately needs one thing to happen, the other desperately needs the opposite to happen. Like, where do you go from there?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

I typically like to let them know. I will say I'm not biased, but I slightly go on the side of the person who kind of feels they need distance, right? Because both of them feel dysregulated. That's why they're behaving the way that they are in that moment. But for different reasons, they're feeling dysregulated, different needs. So if someone feels dysregulated enough that they feel like they need to take a break from the conversation, I'm kind of like on the side of that person that like, we need to take a break now because no matter how many tools I teach you, no matter what you're saying in that moment, you can be 1000% correct. The other person is never gonna hear you or receive it because they're dysregulated, they're flooded, they're not gonna be able to receive. Yeah, it's too much. We need to be sensitive to the fact that this is a problem that is going to get resolved. We're going to talk about it, but maybe it's okay for us to take a 10-minute break so that person feels calm and safe again so they can be receptive and then we can talk about it. And maybe we only talk about that one thing, right? I see this a lot with couples too. They're like talking about five, six different things, especially wedding planning. There's so many variables that go into planning a wedding that they're like, yeah, naming five, six different things at one time. That's that's my feeling.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Let's focus on one thing. Yeah, yes. And that's, I mean, doesn't that go into the same um thought process around no one argument is in a silo, it's not in isolation. Every argument is related to another argument, which is related to another behavior, which is related to the way you saw you know your family, you know, raise you and how they interacted.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

So I get it too. That is my personality, right? That that would be my dominant way in many contexts.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

That's how I'm having my argument. And what about this time when I said that I needed you to do this and then and then I had to do it?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Right. And I get it, and I understand it. I am that, right? But but we also have to keep in mind that like people are not robots, they're going to be overlated with information. And I can even give an example with the person who does tend to do that. You wouldn't be having that energy to feel like you need to bring five or six different things if you yourself were not also feeling dysregulated about the topic, which is why you're going for comfort and resolution from your partner, right? So that's also a clue to you that like maybe we start with one.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah. Damn it. You're not having me at all here, Bianca. All right. Okay. I do understand where you're coming from though. So maybe if we switch gears, like, what about financial habits that couples, you know, they inherit from their parents that causes friction, especially around wedding planning time?

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yes. So a lot of the conversations that I have with my couples are typically about things like, you know, I told my parents about what I'm thinking of plan. And, you know, my parents are saying, you're spending too much money on this one thing. Like, why do you need to have this? This doesn't sound really important. That's where a lot of the conversations start to come up when we start talking about in-laws. I see a lot of beliefs, and especially the biggest being what I was telling you before, which is the fact that like money is definitely one of those perpetual problems. It's very rare that I see a conversation of money come up that doesn't fall into that category of being a perpetual problem, which I do want to say doesn't mean that it's like a lost cause. Because sometimes when I say that to people, they think it's like, oh, that means oh, we can't get through. We're not gonna get to any like any productive point in the conversation. You absolutely can if you approach the conversation with the intention of understanding your partner, right? Why is this thing important to them, right? Why do they want this as part of the wedding? What does that mean to them? What does that represent for them? No, it's no, it's never, no, it's never about the flowers, right? It's not it's not about the choir and having the violinist playing, it's not about any of that stuff. It's about the feeling, the meaning behind having those things, right? Because sometimes when we delve down into it with our partners, we recognize like for you, having a violinist there sounds like a simple thing. But for the other person that might feel like I'm actually investing something into my relationship that is somewhat proof to me, somehow, some way that this relationship is going to be successful because I have a major fear that I'm gonna mess this up and my parents had a really bad marriage, and I don't want to turn out like my parents, right? There's always something there. So we do a lot of work of trying to get to the bottom of is it a fear, right? Or is it a desire? It's typically one of the two.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

So if we start having these money arguments, my listener has had to pull over to the side of the road and there's hyperventilating about the cost of some things in their wedding because I've just realized it's not about those things, it's not about the dress, it's not about you know, chicken or beef or whatever, it's about what it says, it's about what it means to them on a deeper level.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yes. Holy so you always want to understand what that means to your partner, right? That's part of understanding your partner's world, their way of thinking, what they want out of life, what they want out of the relationship. If you can approach it that way, you're always going to be able to get to a point where you can negotiate with them, but you can't negotiate if you don't understand what the greater fear or the greater desire is underneath those things.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah, it's just always you're spending too much or uh you're being cheap. Yeah. And it's and it's just not as simple as that.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Yes, they're like, I'm right, you're wrong. We need to figure this out, or like your parents are giving too much input on like what we need to do here, and this is too much for me. You need to tell your parents that this is who we're doing, like why aren't your parents contributing as much as my parents?

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Yes, don't they think this is important? Don't they like me? Oh my god, all those conversations, yes, okay. So we could toggle Danny, Bianca. So I'm trying to stick to our special questions here. What does a healthy communication pattern look like in the first year of marriage?

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Okay. Specifically in the first year, I see that as couples who are able to have assertive communication. Now, assertive communication, I don't know, I don't know how it is over there, but in the US, sometimes it gets a bad rep, right? We think assertive communication is just like being strictly direct with people. There's some truth to it. It does require some directness, but it's directness with care. It's directness with consideration of what the other person might be feeling and thinking in the moment in which we're sharing our thoughts and feelings, right? So I see that as true assertive communication. So that's what I mean when I say that. Always say, here are your typical don'ts to have a good conversation.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Okay. I'm chanking notes. Yes, boom.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Don't shut down. Don't shut down. If you feel like you need to shut down because you feel unsafe in the moment, tell them and you tell them that I'm gonna take a break for X amount of time, whatever that is for you, 10 minutes, five minutes, 20 minutes, an hour, tomorrow, whatever. And then you say, This conversation is really important to me. I really care how you feel about this. I can tell this is really important to you. So I intend to come back to this conversation, but I feel flooded right now. Brush it off. Yeah, I feel overwhelmed right now. Like I just need a second to gather how I'm thinking and feeling, and then we'll come back to it. And you tell them the time that you're gonna come back to it. And here's the most important thing come back at that time. People mess this up all the time. You would think that this is so simple, but it's not. People will just be like, can we just talk about this later? And that's a valid thing to say, right? That's good, but if we don't come back to it later, then it nothing ever got resolved. And that's gonna make the person continue to bring up five or six topics because they don't have the trust that you're gonna come back, like you said that you would. That can feel really uncomfortable. So we always want to make sure that, like, if we're getting flooded in the moment, we're taking that time that we need, but we're coming back to it. If you can come back to it within 24 hours, that's probably best. Because anything longer than that, the other person is just gonna feel too anxious about it. Then it's gonna feel like there is an injury or like a wound there now because it wasn't able to be addressed. Addressed. Yeah. And for the person who likes to share those five or six topics at a time, right? Getting them comfortable with the fact that like it's okay to only do one or two at a time. Because also, as your partner starts to respond to you in a healthy way, you start to learn that like they're gonna care when I bring up number three, four, five, and six. So I don't feel the anxiety to have to bring it up right now at this second, because I know it's going to be taught through with this person. Usually when we feel like we need to bring five or six, because it we've had enough interactions now where it has been revisited later and treated with care by the other person, which is what we work on in therapy.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

My goodness, I I need you, Bianca, and you for this side of the planet, darling. You're gonna come on over. Because, you know, I'm the list of five or six things kind of person. And I'm like, what about this? And what about this? And what are we gonna do about that? And when are we gonna actually, you know, schedule this in the calendar because it's just not happening, and it is, it's anxiety. And it's also for me, because of the time of my life, it's if I don't bring this up now, I may forget. And this is really important. Is it bad to have a list of things?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

No through. No, I encourage lists. Lists are great. No, I say this a lot to my couples too. Like, if you feel like I'm just gonna forget everything, just write it down and come back to it. And also you can turn this into something as like a little exercise to help build trust with your partner too, right? To see if they're actually gonna come back and talk about these things with you. You can say, Hey, like, I actually want to talk to you about five or six things, but I know that it can make you feel overwhelmed if I share too many, and this is really important to me. So I want you to really listen to what I have to share. So I'm just gonna start out with one now and then let them know like, this is my list. These are all the other things that I want to talk about. When you're with someone who is a very healthy partner, typically you're gonna get a positive response from them because they're gonna say, Oh wow, you really want to share this important thing with me. Like, I care about this now too, right? So we're gonna revisit them at a time, yeah, but just one at a time. Because even though we might want to share all of them at once, anxiety makes us feel like things have to be resolved now, they make things feel immediate, but like unless it's a life or death situation, it's really not as immediate as we feel. So it's okay to come back to it later, but make sure that you come back to it.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Yeah, yeah, that's the trick, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

So if a couple want to break a cycle, you know, they're listening to this and they're going, Oh my god, that's me, that's us, but they don't have a coach or therapist yet. Like, what's one step or one action that they can take, maybe together, maybe this week, make a step in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

A great one would be to address some of those extremes that I was talking about earlier, right? Like looking at what is something really negative that I feel like maybe my parents did, or maybe uh other married couples in my family did that I really didn't like. Like it really made me feel icky watching them do that. What's that thing I don't want to do? Right. Then talk through it with your partner. Maybe they'll have one as well. Could either be the same or something different, and then you'll have a conversation with them, and then you'll say, What is the opposite of this thing? What do I imagine that it looks like? And remember what I said, right? Opposite of an extreme is still another extreme. We're not working with extremes here. So then you talk through them. What does the middle look like, right? What would this thing look like if it wasn't so extreme? How would this feel to the both of us if we were to do this? And bonus points, because I know those are like stacked questions, but like bonus points as an exercise that once you recognize what that kind of like middle looks like to you guys, and it'll look different for every couple, then I challenge you to go back to your family of origin. Go with the most the person who can get the biggest rise out of you. We usually have someone in the family that's like dangerous. Yeah, you're like, I can't talk to them for more than like a couple minutes at a time. It's it's too much. Challenge yourself to talk to that person, not for like, you know, an unhealthy amount of time, but maybe just for a few minutes, challenge yourself and challenge yourself to show up with those behaviors that you identified were in the middle ground with your partner, right? Because that's the only way you're gonna actually start doing it, being able to practice it. So it's one thing that we can practice it with a partner, but often find most of the changes happen with my couples when they can also do those things with their family of origin. Because typically we also start having more of those perpetual arguments, like same cycles over and over again, because we also recognize some of the things we're talking about are things that aren't even coming from them. They're coming from our family of origin. So some of those things do need to be resolved.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Stopping the cycle. That's amazing. But I know that you've also got like a little quiz, Bianca, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Can you share that with my listener?

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Yes, of course. If you go to Bianca Ward.com, I'm sure the spelling will be somewhere in the episode. My spelling's a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Yes, yes, I will. Absolutely. I'll put um the actual link in the show notes, but tell them what they'll find.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yes, if you go there, you'll be able to take a 60-second quiz where it will share with you your dominant communication style. Um, and then it'll also share with you as well some quick tips that you can use literally right now to be able to change that communication style to be healthier, right? So, like it'll tell you like the most common ones, which one is most fitting for you, and then what are some quick tips to work through those things?

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Brilliant. So we can make improvements like this week.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Yes, ASAP, ASAP, because that's what's necessary, right? You shouldn't be this dressed out for a wedding.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Exactly. Well, with my personality, it's like I need it done yesterday. Yesterday. Yeah. Thank you so much, Bianca, for your expertise, your insight, and just your general like sense of humor about it. I really appreciate it because I know therapies, like, you know, serious shit.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

But I don't know, you approach it in a really light-hearted way.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I try my best to approach it that way. I love to use humor with my clients as well, right? And we love to sit and laugh at things because that can help us release some of that anxiety. We're like, you come into a session and you're like, this is the worst thing that could ever be possible. My family is the worst. How am I gonna work through all this shit? But then we start to kind of laugh at certain things, and we're like, you know what? No, a lot of people's families are like this, right? I'm sure, yeah, I'm not doing anything special, right? This has a solution that I can work through.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

It's so good, Bianca, and just um your message that you're not the only one feeling this, in my experience, nine out of ten couples are feeling exactly the things that you described.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Yeah, absolutely. I think that those feelings have pretty much become normalized for us, especially during wedding planning, unfortunately. So I'm very grateful that I'm able to do this work and hold space for couples to remind them that like so many people are going through this literally the same day as you. There are solutions to all of these things, even like the perpetual problems, right? Like they might not have a clear resolution to us, but we do know that by being able to have these conversations and work through things and gain the tools that we need to have these conversations, things can always get better. Just because something started out bad doesn't mean it's gonna end up bad for you.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

That's a really good spot to finish on. And so for people who are looking for you, I am gonna put the link in the show notes. But you're on socials as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Yes, I am. I love to use Instagram. My ad is at the real Bianca.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Beautiful. That's so good, Bianca. Um, I'm just thrilled to meet you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Thank you so much for having me. It was such a great conversation.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

That about wraps it up for this episode of the Umbrali Podcast. For the links and resources we mentioned, please head to the show notes. And if you love the show, please review and subscribe on the podcast platform you're on now so you don't miss out on a single episode. Thanks so much for listening. And remember, weddings are a team sport. Catch it soon.